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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ive decided that the best swap for me right now is going to be a 96 B18C swap, So Ive started a list of things Ill need and the parts buildup is beginning... Since I already have my car converted to OBD1, thats one less thing to worry about.

motor mounts- should I go hasport, or are there other hydro to cable B series mount kits that work better or the same for less money from other manufacturers? passwordjdm has recently quit selling hasport and switched to a brand named innovative mounts...Ive heard a little about their crossmembers, but nothing on their mount kits, anybody know anything?

CV axles- Will the standard 90-93 Integra axles work, or will I have to get custom axles such as hasport, gator racing, raxles, etc.?

shift linkage-this may very well be a stupid series of questions, but Id rather be safe than sorry. First, is all B series shift linkage created equal, Second, is it best to get your shift linkage from the same company that makes your mounts?

wiring and ECU-What all changes need to be made on all the gritty details of wiring?(injector clips, alternator connection, starter connection, all the fun stuff of that nature?) As mentioned, the car is OBD1, what else needs to convert? On rywires' website, they mention that a reprogrammed P28 runs this motor quite well..

clutch-Does anyone out there have a recommendation on a brand of clutch for this swap?

radiator- Is a replacement crossmember a must have? And would it be best to run a 92-95 Civic radiator?

Thats all I can think of at the moment, and Im sure Ive left a few things out, So to all who have knowledge of this swap, feel free to add your knowledge to this thread, it will be most helpful.
 

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Im using generic swap mounts. I bought them, damn its been 4 years ago. They are made by Yonaka, I paid $150 for them. They have done great for me and the are currently holding my H22 in the crx.

Innovative's crossmember is not a traction bar. You shouldnt need to change it anyway for a B swap. I wouldnt waste the money on the civic half radiator until you have to have the room ie..turbo.

I saved money on the linkage by take a 92 teg linkage and shortening the rods. All in all it cost me $25 and about 1hour.

Im not sure about the wiring, but it should be standard obd-1 stuff. What obd-1 engine do you have currently? you might be able to use your current harness with no probs.
 

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Why...

Why would you do that? Whats the major benifit?... at that point for the $ you spend, a nice LS/VTEC or CRVTEC would suit the purpose just great. I was in a buddies 200+hp LS/VTEC... one FAST beast, he had an ITR tranny pushing it!

Don't blow 4500 on a swap just like that, you can build a better combo... slow down and research.
 

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eh, i know why i would do it. ive seen too many lsvtec/crvtecs break and blow up. personally, id do/am doing a GSR swap, most of the power, fraction of the cost. and I got my GSR motor up over type r power for pretty cheap

Im using Hasport EFB2 Mount kit, Hasport shift linkage, Rywire Harness, chipped p28, Z10 Traction Bars, and a Fluidyne full size radiator. Im using an ACT HDSS clutch and ACT Prolite flywheel.

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red89si said:
Ive decided that the best swap for me right now is going to be a 96 B18C swap, So Ive started a list of things Ill need and the parts buildup is beginning... Since I already have my car converted to OBD1, thats one less thing to worry about.

motor mounts- should I go hasport, or are there other hydro to cable B series mount kits that work better or the same for less money from other manufacturers? passwordjdm has recently quit selling hasport and switched to a brand named innovative mounts...Ive heard a little about their crossmembers, but nothing on their mount kits, anybody know anything?

CV axles- Will the standard 90-93 Integra axles work, or will I have to get custom axles such as hasport, gator racing, raxles, etc.?

shift linkage-this may very well be a stupid series of questions, but Id rather be safe than sorry. First, is all B series shift linkage created equal, Second, is it best to get your shift linkage from the same company that makes your mounts?

wiring and ECU-What all changes need to be made on all the gritty details of wiring?(injector clips, alternator connection, starter connection, all the fun stuff of that nature?) As mentioned, the car is OBD1, what else needs to convert? On rywires' website, they mention that a reprogrammed P28 runs this motor quite well..

clutch-Does anyone out there have a recommendation on a brand of clutch for this swap?

radiator- Is a replacement crossmember a must have? And would it be best to run a 92-95 Civic radiator?

Thats all I can think of at the moment, and Im sure Ive left a few things out, So to all who have knowledge of this swap, feel free to add your knowledge to this thread, it will be most helpful.
Great choice in my book. Getting the c5 or the c1? Hydro conversion of hasport seems the best and since there are few cable ys1 trannies around now, I think its a worthwhile choice. Make sure you get lsd or add on quaife otherwise you will be sitting still spinning your wheels.

Well if its a 96 I think thats obd2 so you will need conversion harness from obd2 to 1.
P28 ecu works fine.

ACT clutch, don't get the one with the pucks, very hard to use outside of the track. Just heavy duty/street/track.

They say hasport is the best mounts, hydro conversion and linkage. Thats all I ever had so cannot comment about the others.

Integra axles should be fine unless you go over 250 horse I believe.

Radiator not needed.

What I feel is that there are enough things that can go wrong with a swap, that you might as well make like easy for yourself, save some time and buy the conversion stuff that is known to work well. My time is my most valuable commodity. This is a road that has been heavily traveled. No need to be a trailblaser. The car wil, be fantastic.

Richie
 

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d16z6rex said:
eh, i know why i would do it. ive seen too many lsvtec/crvtecs break and blow up. personally, id do/am doing a GSR swap, most of the power, fraction of the cost. and I got my GSR motor up over type r power for pretty cheap

Im using Hasport EFB2 Mount kit, Hasport shift linkage, Rywire Harness, chipped p28, Z10 Traction Bars, and a Fluidyne full size radiator. Im using an ACT HDSS clutch and ACT Prolite flywheel.

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How many LS/VTEC and CRVTEC's have you seen blow up? honestly...?
And what were the different reasons?! Cause motors just don't blow up... it takes effort to make that happen. If the motors are built correctly... you can spend just about the amount it takes to get a TYPE R, and get more horses (200 to the wheel is achievable...). Also, another option... though more expensive, is the k20... even if you end up with the k20a2 (TYPE S) and not the k20a (TYPE R), you'll STILL have more POWER, and a significant amount of tuneability... (and the k's are also more fuel efficient)...
 

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Ive seen 2 personally. Both LSVs. One of them had continual oiling problems, whcih may have been a build issue, then, after a head gasket replacement, ended having clearance issues and interference killed that motor.

The other one was built fine, but was never able to be tuned 100 percent. No matter what was done, it would ping ridiculously. He richened it up to the point of black exhaust and it stopped ping but ran like crap. It just seemed like so much work and money for somehitng not very reliable.

On the othe rhand, building my GSR motor was cake, and didnt cost me very much to go from 155whp to 194whp, and its every day reliable.

I mean, people cna do whatvere they want, but if it were my car, Id start with a GSR or an ITR motor if I wanted all motor power.

A K swap is definitely an option, if its in the budget. Definitely not an economical swap. I dunno, this is just the way I feel.

as a side note, if i had to pick between my turbo d and my GSR, id pick my turbo d any day of the week.

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d16z6rex said:
Ive seen 2 personally. Both LSVs. One of them had continual oiling problems, whcih may have been a build issue, then, after a head gasket replacement, ended having clearance issues and interference killed that motor.

The other one was built fine, but was never able to be tuned 100 percent. No matter what was done, it would ping ridiculously. He richened it up to the point of black exhaust and it stopped ping but ran like crap. It just seemed like so much work and money for somehitng not very reliable.

On the othe rhand, building my GSR motor was cake, and didnt cost me very much to go from 155whp to 194whp, and its every day reliable.

I mean, people cna do whatvere they want, but if it were my car, Id start with a GSR or an ITR motor if I wanted all motor power.

A K swap is definitely an option, if its in the budget. Definitely not an economical swap. I dunno, this is just the way I feel.

as a side note, if i had to pick between my turbo d and my GSR, id pick my turbo d any day of the week.

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Again bro, its subjective...
I'm sure your buddies wouldn't have had such issues if it was done right!...
if you took an LS block, aftermarket internals, a vtec head, and tuned it, it would put out a great amount of power... The K series is much more intense, it really depends on what the person is looking for... K's respond VERY well to tuning. Ask John, he'll tell you...

On a side note, i too am looking forward to building a turbo d :D (K was the dream... it was just $8000 dollars too far away from me)
 

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I had place racing mounts when I did the b16 and was not happy with them at all. The mounts have really really stiff bushings. If you are building a track whore then they probably wouldnt be to bad. For street and daily driving I wouldn't recommend the place racing mounts.
 

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a k swap and a b swap are 2 completely different realms in terms of price, which is important to consider. My turbo d cost me about the same as my GSR and it makes significantly more power.

i don tknow, i still dont see the beauty of a lsvtec, unless you already had like an ls block or something i guess....they definitely are NOT cheap to build correctly. but like i said, an engine is a personal decision, do what makes you happy. Im sticking to my GSR motor....

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Matt, the two problems you post about above completely revolve around something being very wrong.... NOT about a broad-unreliability of a motor package.

The first motor, sounds like homeboy didn't have the valve reliefs machined out, or wasn't running vtec pistons.... combine that with a higher lift cam probably, and maybe even a higher compression gasket,and cam gear "tuning", and there ya go, instant interference...

The second motor sounds like it had much greater issues... sure it was pinging? And if so, why? was it just one cylinder, or all of them? Why was it pinging? You and i both know that it isn't pinging just because it is an ls/vtec.... something was WRONG... adding fuel to the fire won't help in that situation, cause something is WRONG.

All this negativity towards the ls/vtec is semi-frustrating, because that is what gives it the bad image in the first place... people putting them together half-assed.

Build an ls/vtec right, like my roomates old motor for instance, and it can be done inexpensively (relatively), and haul some serious ass.

By the way, the far more desireable alternative, would be to buy a GSR swap.... then, get an LS crank and rods, and have them installed in the GSR :p

Oh, and one other thing... with my roomates car, i wouldn't hesitate to hop in that car at any time, and without prepping it for it, and drive cross-country... i had that much faith in his motor. They aren't unreliable, unless the owner/builder is 'unreliable'... just like anything else i might add.
 

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Oh, and by the way, to the dude who made this post....

You never specified Type-R, or regular GSR, but since everyone else is assuming you mean Type-R, i'm going to ASSume that as well... lol.

For $4500 or whatever the typer swaps are going for these days, that puts the total swap cost at nearly $6500 if you do everything "right"... it -could- still cost more, and this is all still assuming that you are doing the work yourself.

This is just a random though, but ya know, if you do it yourself (fab work and all).... you might be able to get a K in your rex for close to that same amount? :p ASSuming of course that you buy the parts all right... hehe.

And by "K", i'm referring to a K20A2, not the Type-R K, but still a great K nonetheless...
 

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Yeah, i guess im just tainted by all the 'swaps gone wrong'^tm Ive seen. hmmm.

also, to clarify, i had nothing directly to do with either of these cars, I try not ot oassociat emy self with any of the hack jobs riding around here, so I very well could be missing some important information.

anyway, your input is always a valued counterbalance.....

i do have a question though, what happens when you put an ls crank and rods in my gsr block? iv eheard it mentioned in passing a few times and being the b series noob that i am, i cna only assume it increases the compression or the displacement, but Im not sure exactly.

argh...i really hate the hack job stuff around here. it disenchants me soo....i spent all tuesday afternoon fixing a botch job ep3 turbo install. the kid dcided you didnt really NEED engine management, just injectors......
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
ComposiMo said:
Oh, and by the way, to the dude who made this post....

You never specified Type-R, or regular GSR, but since everyone else is assuming you mean Type-R, i'm going to ASSume that as well... lol.

For $4500 or whatever the typer swaps are going for these days, that puts the total swap cost at nearly $6500 if you do everything "right"... it -could- still cost more, and this is all still assuming that you are doing the work yourself.

This is just a random though, but ya know, if you do it yourself (fab work and all).... you might be able to get a K in your rex for close to that same amount? :p ASSuming of course that you buy the parts all right... hehe.

And by "K", i'm referring to a K20A2, not the Type-R K, but still a great K nonetheless...
Youve assumed correctly sir, what I forgot to put was that Im looking into the 96 spec ~B18C-R~ (or whatever the jdm engine code for it is).

K series would be REALLY nice, but if I go K series sometime down the road, Id want it to be the K20A Type R.

LS/VTEC & CRVTECs can be excellent setups, they can put out the same amount of power, sometimes more, than a B18CR, and be reliable. But when it comes down to getting some the parts needed to make them reliably faster than a B18 Type R, Im still not convinced that you wont spend more money to get one to that level.

Dseries motors can be lots of fun, I currently have a 99 D16Y8(civic ex) swap in my CRX, OBD1 as mentioned, and running a stock P28 ECU. Its a respectively quick car, and gets well over 30 MPG when I keep it out of VTEC. But theres only so much you can do with a d series, and when you compare mod-to mod, most b series will outperform a d series.

As far as converting from OBD2 to OBD1, what engine wiring would have to change? Ive heard some of the post 95 jdm swaps were essentially OBD1 to begin with..
 

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Matt... what happens, is that you increase the stroke of the motor from 87mm, to 89mm.... so you get the -biggest- benefit of doing an LSVTEC, but with the squirters, and main girdles and oem oiling system of the GSR block.

Don't fret Matt... thats a big reason why i'm very picky these days about what work i will do here, and won't do here... i turn away 98% of the people who ask me to do things these days... partly because they don't want to do them how i want to do them (yes, i can be that picky i guess), or i simply have no interest in the project, so i find no joy in it, so i simply won't do it. I'm done messing with hack jobs, and 15year olds with no $$ to back up their dreams.

red: as i said up there in my reply to Matt, the LS bottom end gives you something way better than slapping an R badge on anything will give you..... displacement. It isn't much, but it DOES make the difference... thats why a simply LS/VTEC swap WILL (when assembled properly) make more power than a Type-R... also, don't get caught in looking at only the HP numbers... check out the torque curves when you are comparing motors... that means more. So while your type-R might put 200hp to the crank, my lowly lsvtec is putting 200 to the wheels.... with a considerable amount more torque as well. Yea, it IS better from that standpoint. No, it won't give you the "brownie points" i guess from parking-lot-nut-swingers since it isn't an R, but who cares? Its your car, don't you want it to be faster? :p
 

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wow, its that simple eh.....dman definitely somehting ot think about vor gsr motor rev 3 :)

thanks for the explanation, and the morale boost. I just get so frustrated seeing people spewing their money all over the place and churning out crappy cars (talking about my area, not you guys) that I get disenchanted. and when people ask me why it takes me so long to ge tmy cars built...nothin irritates me more...

at least here there is some appreciation for doing htings right, not just doing things.

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
ComposiMo said:
red: as i said up there in my reply to Matt, the LS bottom end gives you something way better than slapping an R badge on anything will give you..... displacement. It isn't much, but it DOES make the difference... thats why a simply LS/VTEC swap WILL (when assembled properly) make more power than a Type-R... also, don't get caught in looking at only the HP numbers... check out the torque curves when you are comparing motors... that means more. So while your type-R might put 200hp to the crank, my lowly lsvtec is putting 200 to the wheels.... with a considerable amount more torque as well. Yea, it IS better from that standpoint. No, it won't give you the "brownie points" i guess from parking-lot-nut-swingers since it isn't an R, but who cares? Its your car, don't you want it to be faster? :p
Composimo: you definitely have my attention on the GSR/LS crank&rod swap :wink: , care to elaborate a little more on what all is involved in getting the LS rods and crank to fit accordingly? If a GSR block is 1795ccs and the LS block is 18XXccs is there some kind of height issue between the two?
 

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Matt: There is always appreciation for doing things 'right'.... that appreciation will come from someone who knows the difference. If you had something that was just "done", and you took it to a show or something, you'll be able to easily see the people who see that it was just done, but not quite right. They won't be crowding around ooooh'ing and aaahhh'ing.... they'll be standing there pointing everything out that they see wrong, or that was not done properly. i.e. they aren't the ones who look at a beat car that is worth $300, with a $10,000 motor in it, and compliment it.

Unfortunately, they are usually not the average customer-base of a Honda Civic. No offense to Honda owners, but bottom line, is that being an "entry-level" car, you get a lot of "entry-level-players", who don't know the difference usually, and many times oddly enough don't even CARE, as long as it 'runs'... and thats why you see so many crappy jobs rolling around the streets, because if the customer doesn't care (they usually dont, they just want it 'done' as cheaply as possible), then the shop likely won't give two-rats-asses either (If you aren't willing to pay them what the job is worth, do you think that they'll do the right job while not getting paid for it? hell no) , and then the cycle continues.

red: Its fairly simple... you'll have to machine either the rod or the piston (choose the piston if your machine shop tries to do the rod) so that the LS rod will fit into a GSR piston. Also, you may have some slight clearance issues with the squirters, but that can be fixed, and you may have to clearance the lower portion of the block where the rod passes by depending on your casting. Other than that, everything is fairly plug-n-play. The bearing colors are the same for the mains, and then you just use the LS bearings on the rods, and you're done. This jumps your displacement up from 1797cc, up to 1834cc... 37cc may not sound like quite the jump, but it is a lot in these little motors... enough to make it a worthwhile project.

As for the height, they are both the same... the displacement difference is purely the crank stroke difference. deck-heights and cylinder bore are the same.
 
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