[D_Britt_57]

Grinding poverty, a mega-rich class, the politics of bribery, the Catholic church and their policy of world religious domination by having more kids then you can support.
If my kids could live better because I waded a river, I would do it in a heartbeat.
Fix the problem here?
Nope, change the world the folks are trying to escape.

 

[sneaky_pete]

There are as many reasons to cross into this country illegally as there are illegals here...

If they had any balls, they would make the changes in their own country.. an excuse is an excuse is an excuse...

Be, Do, Have..

later

Sneak

 

[Dren]

Ok...if they could really make a change in their own country they probably wouldn't come here. I want to make quite a few changes living here but I can't. I am debating moving in the near future to a much more free country. Actually I am looking at Mexico...

As for the Mexicans coming up here to live, I have no problem with it at all. They are not stealing jobs from me. Actually they are increasing the consumer base while they are living here, even if they are sending back a large portion of their earnings. The main problem I have is with the government. They steal from me and give to others. It doesn't really matter who the "others" are, it's the simple fact that they force me to do so. Many of the "others" happen to be illegals.

The problem as I have said many times before is not immigration, it's the government.

 

[sneaky_pete]

Well, Dren.. you dont have to pay your taxes.. you can drop out of society, and be a truly "free man" if you want to.. but i dont want to see you using our public roads that I pay for with my tax money. I dont want to see you using any public utilites.. that I pay a tax on.. etc..

Have fun in Free Mexico.. oh yeah.. you might want to read this..

Mexican authorities grant immigration visas for the following people:

--Retirees
--Investors
--Professionals
--Scientists & Technicians
--Artists and Sportspeople

Each has its own requirements, but it would seem to me the one most
relevant to you would be for professionals:

"If you are a qualified professional, you can have your certificates
validated by the Mexican Consulate and apply for an immigration permit
to live in Mexico. You must be sponsored by a company who must
satisfy the authorities that you are essential to their operative
requirements."

It appears you'll need to obtain a job offer from a Mexican firm first
in order to attain your objective. How would you like to proceed?

for more info on moving to mexico...

Here


Gee.. they have all kinds of rules and regulations concerning Immigration.. that would be too hard to go thru all that..

Maybe you could just sneak across the border in the middle of the night, and then expect them to accept you as a equal mexican citizen!

good luck with that!

later

Sneak

 

[D_Britt_57]

I read somewhere that the #2GNP of Mexico is the money sent back from the U.S.
What does that say about OUR country?
That the politicians are protecting the companies that hire the illegals.
Why don't we hear of the companies getting busted?
Because they contribute to the stinking politicians, that's why.
I submit we give every one of the workers (that can prove they have been working steady) amnesty.
Let them stay, pay taxes on the wages that YOU wouldn't accept for what they do.
Then we tell the Mexican government it's time to change their system.
If there where decent wages in Mexico, there wouldn't be an immigration problem.

 

[sneaky_pete]

Thats Mexicos problem.. not ours.. well.. hold that.. Mexicos problem is becoming OUR problem In a BIG WAY..

How about completely closing down our borders.. (build a wall) patrol that wall.. and shoot anyone trying to come in...

keep them from coming here in the first place.. get rid of NAFTA, and put large tarrifs on the products coming in from United States companies that have relocated their factories outside of the country..

Keep your business here.. pay AMERICANS a fair wage to make your products.. Fine the living crap out of the companies here that hire Illegals..

there is alot that can be done..

Sadly.. Money is the root of all of these problems...

I dont have enough time to go into detail.. another thread will be coming...

later

Sneak

 

[Laure]

Dren, I wouldn't be so quick to assume that Mexico is a freer country than the US.

Here's a recent article: LINK

And a relevant quote from it:
"Trouble broke out in the notoriously fractious farming town when police arrested roadside flower traders suspected of illegally selling flowers."

I don't know a lot about Mexico, but I have a hunch that lack of economic freedom there may be one big reason that their people are coming here.

I took a weekend trip to Mexico 2 years ago, to Puerto Penasco, and the thing that stuck in my mind was the contrast between how run-down the place looked and how well-groomed and affluent the politicians on the billboards looked... :?

Does Mexico look so dumpy because all their most ambitious and hard-working people are.... here?

 

[Dren]

Why is everybody so afraid of these illegals coming here?

They buy clothing here, they buy shelter here, they buy food here. They pay tax, most likely more than once, on all of these things. They are contributing to American companies while working for American companies to make costs lower for the rest of us. They also work hard and do a good job. I have talked to countless business owners who have hired Mexicans and they can't speak higly enough of them. Even my bigot grandpa spoke higly of the Mexicans who put a new roof on his house.

Ok Sneak...you talk about all of the roads and public places I use. Once you figure out how much you actually pay to keep those things running, let me know. I bet it's no more than a few hundred dollars a person a year. I am sure I pay a lot more than that in gas tax and sales tax in one year. Two taxes I couldn't avoid if I went completely underground...well unless I lived off the land.

 

[Dren]

Dren, I wouldn't be so quick to assume that Mexico is a freer country than the US.

Here's a recent article: LINK

And a relevant quote from it:
"Trouble broke out in the notoriously fractious farming town when police arrested roadside flower traders suspected of illegally selling flowers."

I don't know a lot about Mexico, but I have a hunch that lack of economic freedom there may be one big reason that their people are coming here.

I took a weekend trip to Mexico 2 years ago, to Puerto Penasco, and the thing that stuck in my mind was the contrast between how run-down the place looked and how well-groomed and affluent the politicians on the billboards looked... :?

Does Mexico look so dumpy because all their most ambitious and hard-working people are.... here?

I am just looking into it. Sure, they have their quirky laws just like the many in the States. The same could be said about not being able to cut somebody's hair for money unless you get a license. I had a barber threaten to turn me in once, haha! He received no tip.

 

[red89si]

I read somewhere that the #2GNP of Mexico is the money sent back from the U.S.

Thats right, why do you think vincente fox, president of mexico, is pushing bush so hard to have the guest worker/amnesty program adopted here??

If they had any balls, they would make the changes in their own country.. an excuse is an excuse is an excuse...

Be, Do, Have..

The international community has tried to help them make changes in their own country, mexico got a uber-billion dollar loan from the world bank to help improve their third-world status a few years back, what have they done with all that money?? Did they make some giant death star sized pinata??

I want to make quite a few changes living here but I can't. I am debating moving in the near future to a much more free country. Actually I am looking at Mexico...

Not to rain on your parade, but you might want to think long and hard and at least visit mexico for more than one week before you decide to move there. Ive spent over a month at various locations in mexico for international studies credit for college, after the first week, the novelty of being there starts to dissolve. After the second week, the smell of mexico citys' air will make you nauseous, (even with the mexico-sickness pills my doctor gave me). By the time you hit one month, your digestive system will almost be screaming to go back to america.

 

[CrxCarl]

Grinding poverty, a mega-rich class, the politics of bribery, the Catholic church and their policy of world religious domination by having more kids then you can support.
If my kids could live better because I waded a river, I would do it in a heartbeat.
Fix the problem here?
Nope, change the world the folks are trying to escape.

Wait a second. Did I just read a post where a Liberal said we should get involved in another country to make it a better place?
What are your thoughts on Iraq now?
Got ya! 8)

 

[coz]

removed

 

[DiscoStu]

I've worked with my share of illegal immigrant workers. Yep, many of them do bust their ass hard. Not all, but a fair chunk of them, probably as many as any equally motivated citizen. And they usually don't get a fare share because those 'evil corporations' can take full advantage of them by paying them bare minimum.

But you grant every last one of them amnesty, not only do you condone their past illegal action (sneaking in) and set a bad prescedent for other future illegals, you now make them citizens who are 100% entitled to the same wages you and I are. So, given the choice of hiring someone who speaks your language and someone who doesn't with no difference in how much you are legally obligated to pay them, are you really going to hire the guy who can't speak the language? And then now you have a BALOONED unemployment rate because you've added how many millions of workers who won't all get jobs.

 

[downest]

But you grant every last one of them amnesty, not only do you condone their past illegal action (sneaking in) and set a bad prescedent for other future illegals, you now make them citizens who are 100% entitled to the same wages you and I are. So, given the choice of hiring someone who speaks your language and someone who doesn't with no difference in how much you are legally obligated to pay them, are you really going to hire the guy who can't speak the language? And then now you have a BALOONED unemployment rate because you've added how many millions of workers who won't all get jobs.

But we are talking about a lot of people who are already working... it's not like the employers are just going to cut the jobs, they will just have to pay their employees fairly.

 

[downest]

Mark, I wasn't saying anything about "jobs americans don't want." I was trying to make the point that employers who pay illegals are just as much part of the problem, if they didn't pay them, they wouldn't come here. Unfortunately, that's not going to happen because people are greedy...

And about buying American:
Yes, all of our CRXs are made in Japan, but most Hondas for sale in the US now are made in the USA or Canada, while American companies have moved production to Mexico. Buying an American car means you're supporting American CEOs, while buying a Japanese car means you're supporting American workers. The first letter of a VIN tells where the car was made, I work in a shop and have to record almost every VIN of the cars that come in, and it's amazing (and sad) how many "American" cars aren't built in the US... but that's an issue for a different thread.

 

[Kwicko]

Downest: It's funny... I try to point this out to people, but they simply refuse to believe it. I had a fun conversation with a mullet-haired Camaro driver once when he told me I should have bought an "American" car. I pointed out to him that my '91 Accord station wagon IS an American car, by any real standard he'd care to discuss. It was built in Marysville, Ohio, by American workers. I asked him where his Camaro was built. He said "Detroit, of course, where REAL American cars are built." I asked him if he wanted to stick by that answer, and then informed him that his "American" Camaro was actually built in Canada, by Canadian workers. At that point, he got mad and left.

Why don't Mexicans change their own country, if it's so bad? It's a thought I've often had and more than once said aloud. Then the realization hit me: they can't change the country because it's become the victim of entrenched, systemic corruption. You try to change Mexico, you wind up dead, you're disgraced and run out of office (and usually out of the country), or you're assimilated into the corrupt system.

You might as well ask why our own ancestors didn't just change their countries instead of coming to the New World... At some point, you just cut your losses and head for greener pastures and a new life.

Mike

 

[dohcya]

Downest: It's funny... I try to point this out to people, but they simply refuse to believe it. I had a fun conversation with a mullet-haired Camaro driver once when he told me I should have bought an "American" car. I pointed out to him that my '91 Accord station wagon IS an American car, by any real standard he'd care to discuss. It was built in Marysville, Ohio, by American workers. I asked him where his Camaro was built. He said "Detroit, of course, where REAL American cars are built." I asked him if he wanted to stick by that answer, and then informed him that his "American" Camaro was actually built in Canada, by Canadian workers. At that point, he got mad and left.

Why don't Mexicans change their own country, if it's so bad? It's a thought I've often had and more than once said aloud. Then the realization hit me: they can't change the country because it's become the victim of entrenched, systemic corruption. You try to change Mexico, you wind up dead, you're disgraced and run out of office (and usually out of the country), or you're assimilated into the corrupt system.

You might as well ask why our own ancestors didn't just change their countries instead of coming to the New World... At some point, you just cut your losses and head for greener pastures and a new life.

Mike

I agree with that; however, that gives no one else a right to try and change our country. We have laws and they should be followed. At the same time, I believe, they should be enforced. I think thats part of the problem.

 

[Lumpy53]

There are as many reasons to cross into this country illegally as there are illegals here...

If they had any balls, they would make the changes in their own country.. an excuse is an excuse is an excuse...

Be, Do, Have..

later

Sneak

So what your saying is that all those British people that came to North America from England to get away from religious persecution should have stayed there and changed their country. In that case I totaly agree with you. Then they would not have came here and killed so many of my Native American ancestors!

 

[Dren]

The solution :
Buy only American (funny, considering we all drive Hondas)
Buy from companies that pay decent wages for all work.
Buy organic.

But, damn, that's so expensive.

Ahh, but even if you do not buy only American products you are still supporting the retail outlets, the shipping companies, the sales people and everything inbetween. If I buy a German car at a dealership in the USA the dealership which is privately owned by an American collects the profit. They hire local Americans to sell the cars. They pay Americans to deliver the cars when they are imported.

The great thing about your statement is that we all have a choice to buy what we want! There are companies who do all of their business in America and proudly display this, so you are willing to buy it if you wish. The same goes for organic foods.

But, think about this. If you say you should buy only American, well what about buying only products made in the state you live in? Why should the jobs be exported to some other state when they can be in your state bennefiting those who are paying taxes with you? But then you can say well why not buy only from the county you live in, or the city, or the township, or only your neighbors? Well really, you should only buy goods from your family members. No way, that's not fair to yourself! You should make and provide everything for yourself. Sure it will take you all day long to do everything you need to survive, but it's better that you have those duties than somebody else who can do it better and cheaper.

 

[D_Britt_57]

Wait a second. Did I just read a post where a Liberal said we should get involved in another country to make it a better place?
What are your thoughts on Iraq now?
Got ya! 8)

IRAQ a BETTER PLACE???, better for WHO?

Oh yeah, you "got me" what a hoot.
My thoughts on Iraq are the same, or even more pissed off.
It's apples and oranges, Iraq is a windfall, or was SUPPOSED to be for the mega companies that got the dimbulb elected.
Well, they seem to be making out,of course, but where is the oil?
And what about the rest of us?
Mexico is a HUMANITARIAN problem, and OUR problem with the waves of people looking for a better life.
See the difference?
No, I don't think you do, or you wouldn't even have submitted that post.
Yes, we needed to go to Kosovo and help ordinary people, what people are we helping in Iraq?
We need to bitch slap Fox into helping the poor.
Look at Venezuela, the president is helping the poor there, and is called a communist, a threat to the U.S. Why?
Because he is resisting the idea that American companies should call the shots.
They are using oil profits to build schools, sending poor people to clinics for FREE healthcare...just amazing, People benefiting from their government. What a novel concept.
Most that are profiting from Iraq are the wealthy.
See any difference now?
Yeah, you "got me"
And, Mark, I thought you (of all people) would see my point, but...