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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was wheeling into my apartment when a cop followed me in and flipped his lights on. I knew I wasn't speeding, and sure enough he came up and said that he noticed my exhaust (InVidia catback) was pretty loud. He said, "I've inspected enough cars to know you probably aren't running a cat". He's right, too...the kid I got the car from a few months back put a straight test pipe in. I kinda played dumb (like I didn't know much about cars), but he asked me to look under the car and I was like, "oh yeah, it just has a piece of straight pipe in there".

Anyway, he explained the usual "EPA violation, the fines can cost $5000 a day" stuff...and then wrote me a ticket for an emission control violation. Luckily, he WAS cool enough to give me about 10 days to get it straightened out -- I just have to put a cat on and go have him inspect it, and he'll tear up the ticket. Pretty nice guy, all things considered.

So, looks like I am in the market to buy a cat very shortly ;) Anybody have any experience with the CarSound/Magnaflow cats, or any other suggestions? I guess a high-flow deal would be nice, but hopefully it quiets my exhaust down a little to make him happy enough to throw this charge out the window!
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Eh, I just went ahead and ordered a direct-fit Magnaflow (CarSound) Cat. Wanted to get it ordered ASAP so I have plenty of time to put in and and not have to go to court :)
 

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my cars real freakin loud with no exhaust and ive never got questioned for it thankfully

ive ben pulled over while the cars running and so obvious that i have no exhaust but eh whatever im not complaining but i got my whole new exhaust comming soon so that will be greeattt
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
crxsitogo said:
what are the emissions requirements in IN?
There is no emissions testing in this part of the state (only up by Chicago, I think)...so I won't have to pass a sniffer test with it, pretty much just a visual inspection (which only happens in a case like this).

There are a million hilljacks running around here with no cat (and super-loud exhausts, too), I would bet money on it...weird that this guy felt like busting my balls today, it's really pretty unusual.

Oh well, I wanted my car to be quieter anyway.
 

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ryan_long_01 said:
There is no emissions testing in this part of the state (only up by Chicago, I think)...so I won't have to pass a sniffer test with it, pretty much just a visual inspection (which only happens in a case like this).
Id say if you didnt have one on order, then just go find a used honda cat at a muffler shop, punch the guts out of it, stab it in there so you pass the visual test, then put your test pipe back in after you get your all clear for actually having a cat there. All I run in mine is the punched out OEM CRX cat. Ive thought about getting one of the catco performance/racing converters, or something along those lines, but arent those supposed to be considered a test pipe too?? We basically have the same kind of emissions here in kansas, (KC is supposedly the only place that might be doing sniffer testing sometime in the future). And usually if they pull you over for something like exhaust here, its because theyre looking for something bigger to nail you on..
 

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I usually have a live and let live philosophy...don't infringe on my basic freedoms and you can do whatever the hell you want. That being said, this is one my sore points...intentionally removing the cat.
You're messing with my air.
Think there's no proof to support global warming? Than you're as fucking stupid as Bush.
You know, if it was providing a drastic difference, a noticeable improvement, I might be a little more flexible. But its been proven/tested that a good working cat compared to a "test pipe" makes minimally different power...mostly within 1-3hp. And sometimes a test pipe even lost power.
So if you grossly pollute the environment so that you can have an extra 1-3hp...thats a dick in my book.
 

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Man, I've never heard of anybody in Indiana to get a ticket for that. You must have just been in the right place at the wrong time for the cop to catch you. What an ass. I guess that's what we pay them to do!
 

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Dren said:
Man, I've never heard of anybody in Indiana to get a ticket for that. You must have just been in the right place at the wrong time for the cop to catch you. What an ass. I guess that's what we pay them to do!
Actually, I think if he was a real "ass" he could've let the Federal laws into play. I'm not sure if anyone wants to mess with the Fed especially at the expense of jail time and $5k a day.
 

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I've been rolling with the Carsound/Magnaflow OE-style cat for quite a while now. Its a fine cat, definitely flows better than an old stock one, sound is hardly different from a stock one... a little louder.

You'll need to get some longer bolts and/or cut the springs in half to get it installed... the flange puts it about 1/2 inch out of reach of the stock bolts...easily fixed though.

As for emissions, I'll know at the end of the month if it passes Austin emissions...I'm 90% sure it will unless there is something terribly wrong in my engine.

:lol:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
dohcrxl said:
Dren said:
Man, I've never heard of anybody in Indiana to get a ticket for that. You must have just been in the right place at the wrong time for the cop to catch you. What an ass. I guess that's what we pay them to do!
Actually, I think if he was a real "ass" he could've let the Federal laws into play. I'm not sure if anyone wants to mess with the Fed especially at the expense of jail time and $5k a day.
Yeah he was actually pretty cool, all things considered, giving me time to fix it and I won't have to pay a fine or go to court or anything. But, Dren is right...this is really weird in Indiana, usually anything goes -- I see trucks just SPEWING tons of oil smoke down the highway, running loud-ass open headers, hell I was behind a van yesterday with NO working brake lights...he just knew that if he pulled over an import with a loud exhaust, chances are that the cat would be gone. It's all good, he was actually way nicer than most cops who pull me over :)
 

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grouch said:
I usually have a live and let live philosophy...don't infringe on my basic freedoms and you can do whatever the hell you want. That being said, this is one my sore points...intentionally removing the cat.
You're messing with my air.
Think there's no proof to support global warming? Than you're as [potty mouth] stupid as Bush.
You know, if it was providing a drastic difference, a noticeable improvement, I might be a little more flexible. But its been proven/tested that a good working cat compared to a "test pipe" makes minimally different power...mostly within 1-3hp. And sometimes a test pipe even lost power.
So if you grossly pollute the environment so that you can have an extra 1-3hp...thats a dick in my book.
Try to know a little bit of something before you spout off the tree-hugging, communist/environmentalist creed, in fact your holy catalytic converters are probably messing with your global warming theory more than you think, and this article is a few years old already:

E.P.A. Says Catalytic Converter Is
Growing Cause of Global Warming
By Matthew L. Wald
Copyright 1998 The New York Times
May 29, 1998

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WASHINGTON -- The catalytic converter, an invention that has sharply reduced smog from cars, has now become a significant and growing cause of global warming, according to the Environmental Protection Agency.

Hailed as a miracle by Detroit automakers even today, catalytic converters have been reducing smog for 20 years. The converters break down compounds of nitrogen and oxygen from car exhaust that can combine with hydrocarbons, also from cars, and be cooked by sunlight into smog.

But researchers have suspected for years that the converters sometimes rearrange the nitrogen-oxygen compounds to form nitrous oxide, known as laughing gas. And nitrous oxide is a potent greenhouse gas, more than 300 times more potent than carbon dioxide, the most common of the gases, that is warming the atmosphere, according to experts.

This spring, the EPA published a study estimating that nitrous oxide now comprises about 7.2 percent of the gases that cause global warming. Cars and trucks, most fitted with catalytic converters, produce nearly half of that nitrous oxide, the study said. (Other sources of nitrous oxide include everything from nitrogen-based fertilizer to manure from farm animals.)

The EPA study also showed that nitrous oxide is one of a few gases for which emissions are increasing rapidly. Collectively known as greenhouse gases, they trap heat in the earth's atmosphere.

The increase in nitrous oxide, the study notes, stems from the growth in the number of miles traveled by cars that have catalytic converters. And the problem has worsened as improvements in catalytic converters, changes that have eliminated more of the nitrogen-oxygen compounds that cause smog, have conversely produced more nitrous oxide.

Wylie J. Barbour, an EPA official who worked on the recently published inventory, said that the problem created by the converter is classic. "You've got people trying to solve one problem, and as is not uncommon, they've created another."

Nitrous oxide, or N2O, is not regulated because the Clean Air Act was written in 1970 to control smog, not global warming. And no regulations exist to control gases that are believed to cause global warming.

The United States and the other industrialized nations agreed in Kyoto, Japan, last December to lower emissions of greenhouse gases to 5 percent below 1990 levels, over the next 10 to 15 years, but the agreement has not been approved by the Senate, and no implementing rules have been written.

"This hadn't really been on people's radar screen until climate change started becoming an issue," said one EPA official involved in reducing pollution from cars, who asked not to be identified by name.

The EPA has not proposed a solution at this point, and is seeking public comment on its study. Auto industry experts say they could solve the problem by tinkering with the catalytic converter, but some environmentalists suggest that the growing production of nitrous oxide is yet another reason to move away from gasoline-powered cars. The EPA's study estimated that nitrous oxide may represent about one-sixth of the global warming effect that results from gasoline use.

"It's like, clean is not green," said Sheila Lynch, executive director of the Northeast Alternative Vehicle Coalition, a public-private partnership that encourages non-traditional power sources.

Another expert, Christopher S. Weaver, an engineering consultant who wrote a study on the subject for the environmental agency, said, "We haven't cared enough to establish standards."

Precisely how much nitrous oxide the converters produce remains an issue. A report used by the EPA in preparing its greenhouse gas study, calculated that a car with a fuel economy of about 19 miles a gallon would produce .27 grams of nitrous oxide per mile. That represents an amount that is about one-third the limit of emissions for nitrogen oxide, the chemicals causing smog.

Steven H. Cadle, a research scientist at General Motors, said, "it's a huge number." In contrast, an older car without a catalytic converter produces much larger amounts of nitrogen oxides, but only about a tenth as much nitrous oxide, the greenhouse gas.

The EPA calculated that production of nitrous oxide from vehicles rose by nearly 50 percent between 1990 and 1996 as older cars without converters have neared extinction. Using a standard unit of measure for global warming gases, millions of metric tons of carbon equivalent, nitrous oxide emissions rose to 54.7 million tons from 36.7 million during those years, the study said.

The contradictory impact of the converter has not been lost on environmental officials or industry experts, who continue to debate not only the extent of the growing problem as well as how to reduce the emissions in future years.

Ned Sullivan, the head of the Maine Department of Environmental Protection, said the converter problem requires a "comprehensive" response. "This specific issue fits into a broader context that our regulatory system has tended to deal with pollutants on an individual, rather than a comprehensive, basis," he said.

He and others favor moving away from today's typical car design, a big gasoline engine driving the wheels, to electric cars. Maine would like electric cars. Another solution is hybrid cars, which use small, efficient engines running on gasoline to help turn the wheels and to charge batteries for electric motors that also run the wheels. Those have much higher fuel economy, and thus lower greenhouse gas emissions.

Car industry experts, however, favor less drastic changes. They propose cutting nitrous oxide production by adjusting catalytic converters in future models. They suspect that the gas is produced when the converter is warming up, and believe the converters could be redesigned to reach optimum temperature faster. That would also help them destroy other pollutants better.

Weaver said that measurements on more kinds of cars and light trucks would be needed to be certain about the size of the problem. But Weaver said, "It is quite clear that you produce nitrous oxide in a catalyst, in some circumstances."

At the Union of Concerned Scientists, an environmental group, an expert on transportation pollution, Roland Hwang, said, "We can't be pushing forward trying to reduce smog while making the global warming problem worse; we can't have programs that undercut each other." He said this was evidence that the transportation system would have to use something besides gasoline.

Cadle, of General Motors would not go that far. But, he said, "You have to be holistic and try and look at everything, which is obviously difficult

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Besides, its not like our CRXs get 3 miles to the gallon on 40 gallon tank,(the highest stock capacity is something like 12 gallons), so air pollution with my crx WONT EVER be a concern in my book..You can even do a K series swap to one and still get close to 30-40 miles per gallon.. And if youre still so worried about ~polluting the air~ find a way to do an E85 conversion, its supposed to be pretty air friendly fuel, it runs on a higher octane level, and economically speaking, your money goes into the american economy through the american farmer, and most of them arent anywhere close to rich....
 

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red89si said:
Try to know a little bit of something before you spout off the tree-hugging, communist/environmentalist creed, in fact your holy catalytic converters are probably messing with your global warming theory more than you think, and this article is a few years old already:
First off, thanks for trying to educate with the article.
Since we're on an education bender, figure out the difference between a communist and an environmentalist and get back to me.

I'm already aware of the cat issue...
and here's why I'm still in favor of using them.
1. Cats improve several air quality emissions, among them CO2, one of the greenhouse gases.

2. Right now, as far as we can tell, its benefits far out weigh any negative impact. With the cat introduction, doing nothing simply wasn't an option.

3. The negative impact isn't fully understood yet. That article outlines some good theory but really needs some followup research...but that was 8+ years ago. Subsequent articles/publications have been more vague instead of specific. Leave it to the EPA to fuck that up.
 

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grouch said:
Since we're on an education bender, figure out the difference between a communist and an environmentalist and get back to me.
With pleasure.... the garden variety environmentalist, more properly known as an eco-wacko, tree-hugger, or eco-terrorist. Uses misinformation, deception, and terrorism as a means to achieve a political goal using the environment as a cover story(driving spikes into trees before theyre cut down in BC is one such example). Whats interesting is that all of these political goals they seek to achieve are communist in nature..

If you want to help the environment, become a naturalist, one who actually studies the environment, because they care about it. Not some left wing, constitution-hating, tree hugging, SUV torching, terrorist.
 

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red89si said:
grouch said:
Since we're on an education bender, figure out the difference between a communist and an environmentalist and get back to me.
With pleasure.... the garden variety environmentalist, more properly known as an eco-wacko, tree-hugger, or eco-terrorist. Uses misinformation, deception, and terrorism as a means to achieve a political goal using the environment as a cover story(driving spikes into trees before theyre cut down in BC is one such example). Whats interesting is that all of these political goals they seek to achieve are communist in nature..

If you want to help the environment, become a naturalist, one who actually studies the environment, because they care about it. Not some left wing, constitution-hating, tree hugging, SUV torching, terrorist.
How about sticking to the topic instead of spouting generalizations? Or at least can you explain how "eco-wackos" use terrorism and deception, and how they have communist goals? Also where do you get left wing = constitution hating, certainly not from any of the news from Washington in the last six years... I can think of another wing that doesn't seem to even know it exists...

Anyway, back on topic... are you saying it's better to run a car without a cat?
 

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red89si said:
With pleasure.... the garden variety environmentalist, more properly known as an eco-wacko, tree-hugger, or eco-terrorist. Uses misinformation, deception, and terrorism as a means to achieve a political goal using the environment as a cover story(driving spikes into trees before theyre cut down in BC is one such example). Whats interesting is that all of these political goals they seek to achieve are communist in nature..

If you want to help the environment, become a naturalist, one who actually studies the environment, because they care about it. Not some left wing, constitution-hating, tree hugging, SUV torching, terrorist.
I suppose that is a perception issue w/environmentalists ...mostly spread by right wing(which is hardly any better than the left) ultraconservative big business lapdogs who are taught to despise and even fear the pinko liberal communist agenda.
But now that I think about it, I can't come up with one communist state thats been known for its environmentalism. Unless we're talking the communal ownership of a clump of trees.

Okay to summarize: all environmentalists are terrorists. And everybody knows all terrorists are Muslim, therefore all environmentalists are Muslim. I think you're on to something...and since all muslim-environmentalists are communists, that explains why democracy is having such a hard time in the middle east. By golly, there's the elusive Iraq exit strategy....we start a Save-The-Sand drive, solve the vegetarian tofu supply issues and everyone goes home happy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
red89si said:
With pleasure.... the garden variety environmentalist, more properly known as an eco-wacko, tree-hugger, or eco-terrorist. Uses misinformation, deception, and terrorism as a means to achieve a political goal using the environment as a cover story(driving spikes into trees before theyre cut down in BC is one such example). Whats interesting is that all of these political goals they seek to achieve are communist in nature..

If you want to help the environment, become a naturalist, one who actually studies the environment, because they care about it. Not some left wing, constitution-hating, tree hugging, SUV torching, terrorist.
Honestly, do you think the everyday, "garden-variety" environmentalist is using environmentalism as what you call a "cover story" to acheive communist political goals? Read through that a few times and consider what you're claiming. Sure, there's some nutty environmentalists out there, some even have some pretty crazy political views...but I'm pretty sure a lot of the people who claim to care about the environment actually care about the environment. You might think that they go about in the wrong way, but I think they are in it because of a real commitment to nature, not as some huge cover-up for their REAL agenda, which is Communism.

"Left-wing, constitution-hating...terrorist". Who REALLY hates the Constitution, someone who doesn't want a tree cut down or the current administration's spying, phone-record collecting, etc, all WITHOUT court approval.

Meh, I guess the 4th amendment isn't that important, anyway. Not when you are fighting the war on Eco-Commu-Terrorism! Just throw out some more Rush-type buzzwords like eco-wacko and call anyone you disagree with either a communist (that's soooooooo 1950s), or a terrorist (now that's hot), or BOTH...wow.
 

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ryan_long_01 said:
dohcrxl said:
Dren said:
Man, I've never heard of anybody in Indiana to get a ticket for that. You must have just been in the right place at the wrong time for the cop to catch you. What an ass. I guess that's what we pay them to do!
Actually, I think if he was a real "ass" he could've let the Federal laws into play. I'm not sure if anyone wants to mess with the Fed especially at the expense of jail time and $5k a day.
Yeah he was actually pretty cool, all things considered, giving me time to fix it and I won't have to pay a fine or go to court or anything. But, Dren is right...this is really weird in Indiana, usually anything goes -- I see trucks just SPEWING tons of oil smoke down the highway, running loud-ass open headers, hell I was behind a van yesterday with NO working brake lights...he just knew that if he pulled over an import with a loud exhaust, chances are that the cat would be gone. It's all good, he was actually way nicer than most cops who pull me over :)
Yup, it seems like every few cars around where I live in Indiana have more problems with them than a simple straight pipe cat. It just looks like this guy was picking on him and trying to scare him a little. Stuff like this may happen in Cali quite often but in Indiana...no way. I bet if Ryan was driving anything American made the cop would have left him alone, but then again you never know.
 
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