Honda CRX Forum banner
1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
778 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have had my suspisions and now I am almost convinced. Pro sports are rigged to some degree. After watching many games of this World Cup I am pretty much convinced.

Germany will win. It will take a massive overcoming of any team to beat them, not because Germany may be the better team but because of the refs.

There were several NBA finals games that were questionable, a few NHL games, even the Steelers charge to win the Super Bowl. F1 racing is rigged in favor of certain teams. It's sad...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
778 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I don't even know if the announcers can put 2 and 2 together. They were saying durring one of the bad officiated games that the first two rounds of group play had good officiating but then that last round had a lot of controversial officiating. Kind of odd that the last round was the deciding round for a lot of teams. I thought they might just figure it out.

Also there were a lot of yellow cards given durring the group play, cards that carry a fine. I don't know if that had anything to do with giving out so many. Even the announcers were questioning why so many were being given out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
734 Posts
bobski said:
ryan_long_01 said:
I like your tinfoil hat, is it comfy?
Ahh, nothing like a good troll. Ask yourself: how did that comment add to the conversation? What? It didn't? Huh.
It's a way of saying, "I think that is a slightly over-the-top conspiracy theory", and most people understand that...what else are you supposed to say to someone who thinks multiple major professional sports are "rigged"?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,594 Posts
ryan_long_01 said:
It's a way of saying, "I think that is a slightly over-the-top conspiracy theory", and most people understand that...what else are you supposed to say to someone who thinks multiple major professional sports are "rigged"?
Yeah, it's a way of saying that while simultaneously belittling the the other party. It implies that the he/she is of unsound judgement - paranoid, schizo, whatever - and therefor his/her arguement doesn't deserve consideration.
It's not normally a problem around here, but I'm just a little tired of people using personal attacks to try to win an arguement rather than actually discussing the topic. Whenever I run across that kind of post, I just wish I could take back the 2 seconds I wasted by reading it. I probably wouldn't have said anything if the post had some valuable content or was more than one sentence. The way it stands, it looks like little more than impulsive name-calling.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
634 Posts
I didn't see the "tinfoil hat" remark as being snippy or belittling; I took it more as an homage to our well-known (and recently absent) tinfoil-hat hero. As such, I kind of thought it was funny.

And I do disagree about major sports being "rigged". It seems that whenever someone's favorite team doesn't win, it's because of all manner of reasons, but the one reason that's NEVER mentioned is that they lost because they, simply put, didn't play as well - and thus scored fewer points! I've seen some crappy calls, but a really well-sorted, well-honed team will use those disappointments as a rallying call, and find a way to rise above them.

Now I'll launch into my argument about F1 and why it's not rigged. It's long, so get a cup of coffee; you're going to need it.

In the case of Formula One racing, I particularly dislike calls of "rigging" the series. It would be monumentally challenging to even try such a thing, and it would take collusion on the parts of several key players to even attempt to pull it off. And that's if everything went RIGHT. As we've all seen, in racing, everything seldom goes just the way you want it to.

When accusations of rigging a major race series are brought up, one needs to subject it to the logic test, and follow the money. Who benefits? Who pays? How much? If it looks like F1 is rigged, or has been for the last several years, the obvious benefactor (until recently, at least) would have to be Ferrari. That's where the argument hits a brick wall; Ferrari is a "boutique" carmaker, turning out several hundred, or a few thousand, cars per year. If it were possible to simply "buy" the championship by placing large amounts of cash in the right hands, wouldn't Ford (Jaguar in F1 until a couple years ago), Toyota, or Honda be the more likely candidate to have bought it? They have billions to spend, whereas Ferrari has a much smaller discretionary budget for blowing on things like buying championships. Ferrari is rumored (no F1 team will say exactly how much they spend per season) to spend over $400 million per season to mount their F1 effort. Toyota, by way of comparison, is said to expend ONE BILLION DOLLARS to run two cars in F1. Toyota is also known to hold the largest cash reserves of any automaker at the present time ($56 billion in "spare" money lying around, from what I've read). If the F1 Championship were for sale, you can bet that Toyota would be bidding, and bidding high.

What I think happens in Formula One, and indeed in most (if not all) racing series, is that one team just *clicks* with one driver, one manager, one aerodynamicist, one chief engineer, and one crew, and it all comes together to form a perfect union, which may last one race, one season, or (in the rarest cases) nearly a decade. When M. Schumacher signed to the hapless Ferrari F1 team, I thought he was making a huge mistake, and said so to anyone who'd listen. I was sure his talents would be squandered, and he'd be relegated to being remembered as one of the best drivers you never heard from again. Boy, was I ever wrong. Ferrari brought in Schumie, and then they built the entire F1 team around him, reinventing the team from the ground up. They brought in key people he'd worked with before (Ross Brawn, Jean Todt, and others), and they spared no expense in giving him simply the best of everything. For a long while, Michael was flat out the best F1 driver in the world, period. Quite possibly, he was the best in history (the record books would surely say I'm right about that). He was so good, and the team that coalesced around him was so damn good, that they even made Rubens Barrichello, for a time, the second-best driver in F1.

Now Barrichello is with Honda, where he thought he'd have a chance to be their #1 driver, and where it looked like their star might be ascending and they might build a championship-winning team around him, but alas, it looks as though he made the wrong move at the wrong time. Honda has seemed to be coming apart at the seams, self-destructing at an accelerating rate, and Rubens at this point in his career looks more and more like simply a good driver who happened to look great or near-great by dint of the reflected light from the glory that was Michael Schumacher.

It looks to me, at this point in the season (and given last year's results, of course), as though Fernando Alonso is now the "chosen one". By that, I don't mean he's been smiled upon by the powers that be as the one who will be given (or sold) the golden crown of F1 Champion; I mean he's the one who happens to be the right driver, with the right people around him, on the right team at the right time, when it all magically comes together to become something amazing - a full-fledged TEAM! A great driver can sometimes - maybe even *often* - get good results out of a less-than-great car, but a great TEAM can give even a merely good driver a car that is capable of beating all competition. Right now, at this moment, Alonso is on the one team that seems to have everything going its way. And in my opinion, he's going to ruin it by leaving.

Now, back to rigging in F1. How would you do it? How could you pull it off? Is one team benefiting lopsidedly from a particular rule? Is one team benefiting from its particular tire supplier? (Remember that, during a large portion of Ferrari's recent F1 dominance, they were the ONLY team running Bridgestone tires. They didn't get the benefit of feedback from the other 20 cars running similar tires, as Michelin-skinned teams did. They had to figure it out on their own - so they did!) Show me where the sport is being rigged so that only one team or driver can win. In most sports, when one player or team dominates others so completely for so long, they call it a "dynasty". Apparently, in Formula One, we call it "rigged". :(

[/Rant]

Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
778 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I didn't mean rigged literally, I mean it (F1) along with many other pro sports organizations are heavily in favor of one team. The F1 governing board often leans one way or another. For pro sports the refs in these games are able to sway a game one way or another very easily as we have seen many times in this World Cup already. I coached soccer for a few years and it happened to the team I coached many times. I am friends with refs, I work with two, and they told me they knew we were going to get screwed before the game even started. They even sat me down and told me how they "covered their asses" by making a lot of calls for us at the very end so it looked like an even game on paper. We lost but the game should have been a lot closer than a misrepresented 5-0 "blowout".

I am all for saying let the best man/team win, but that is rarely the case. That is why I'm a big fan of track and feild. How can you screw that up?

Now with F1...I believe that Ferrari was in favor over some of the other teams and that could be seen on several occasions where the governing board was lenient on Ferrari but hard on the other teams. Sure, money is a big factor and the overwhelming # of people who watch F1 are Ferrari fans. You'll be lucky to find 10 Toyota fans at a race. Maybe in Japan that is different but anywhere else the Tifosi are everywhere. Even a guy down the street from me, who drives a GTO, has a Tifosi license plate. It is red though... Max Mosely is trying to force out the big names like Toyota and Honda with the rule changes in 2008 and beyond.

Do I think all these people sit down and plan out a conspiracy, no. I just think that many times the best team does not win, or more like it one of the teams doesn't get a chance to win. Sure sometimes the "better" team just doesn't play as well and loses. I'm just saying that "rigging" seems to take place in pro sports more than I thought it ever would. I figured boxing was rigged but not other sports.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
734 Posts
bobski said:
Whenever I run across that kind of post, I just wish I could take back the 2 seconds I wasted by reading it.
Sorry about stealing your 2 seconds, mister.

In all honesty I meant no ill will toward Dren...often times I think his ideas are a little "off the wall" -- I figure we're in a fairly close-knit, laid-back "community" here, and I treat it as such. If he's offended, I'd apologize. If you're offended, I'd advise you to stop taking the Internet so seriously. There are a lot of things out there that will waste your time, and an "Internet shorthand" way of saying that something is a bit of a crackpot conspiracy theory really ISN'T anything to go on a crusade about.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
210 Posts
Story about the ponies:
I used to bet the ponies...ALOT...
I sorta went nuts there for a year or so, and lost many thousands of dollars gambling.
I was at a watch and wager in Lancaster CA. ( I lived at Edwards Air Force base with my 1st ex-wife at the time)
A bunch of us were sitting at a table discussing the next race, and the jockey Laffit Pincay Jr. was riding a favorite.
A guy I had seen around there piped in and said he would never bet on a horse he was riding.
We asked why, and he related this story.
He was having lunch with his lawyer and went back to his office in L.A. and another guy, who the lawyer knew from the building was there, just shooting the breeze.
The guy telling the story said he had to leave, as he wanted to catch the 1st race at Hollywood Park that afternoon.
The other guy (who wondered in while they where talking) said "Hey, I think we got something going over at the track today" and left.

The guy came back and said that the horse named One Eyed Pirate, was going to win his race.
The guy goes to the track, see's that 'ol one eye was going off at 13 to 1 and put every nickel he had on him on him to win.
He said that from the start of the race, the other jockeys were standing up in the irons and holding their horses back, while L. Pincay was beating his horse from the get go and won the race.
He collected a bunch of money, he says...
Where did the guy who gave the tip work?
The IRS is where.
Also if you read the first book that Larry King wrote, he tells a story of M.C.ing a thing for some mob guys in Tampa, back in the day.
A couple of days later, a big, bent nose guy knocked on his door and told him that if he bet on a certain horse that day, he could make some money.
He went (or so he writes) and cleaned up on the mobsters tip.

I DO believe that some daily races are fixed, but have my doubts that the big money ones are.

And I FIRMLY believe that the Seahawks where HOSED by the ref's in last years Super Bowl.
Ever wonder why there where so many "terrible towels" waving at the game?
The NFL gave 30 thousand of them out to the fans before the game...for free.
The Seahawks absolutely won that game, but the Ref's, and the NFL needed the stealers to win for the "feel good" stories they got from it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
778 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
^That is what I am talking about. Not everything is rigged but a lot of it can and is at times swayed one way or another. It makes it that much harder for the competition to win, even though they can.

I know first hand from coaching high school sports. I just never figured pro sports would be similar, but they are.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
I don't know much about other sports, but soccer games are somewhat difficult to sway one way or the other.

The reason for the percieved "rigged" games as you say is because they (FIFA) changed the damn rules on the refs just before the World Cup!! Blame FIFA for confusing the crud out of the refs with no real "trial games" for the refs to practice on.

Yes, some of the games were poorly refereed, but they were equally poor for both teams. (Parts of the Italy-US and Ukraine-Swizerland games come to mind, among others).

Germany will win. It will take a massive overcoming of any team to beat them, not because Germany may be the better team but because of the refs.
Fat chance! Germany will loose to Argentina this Friday. Germany is too young a squad and has "looked unstoppable" because they haven't played any team with a credible defense. A "slanted ref" won't be able to help them this friday, only good plays will (and maybe a goal from Klose).

Look for Italy to win it though!!! (No bias whatsoever)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
778 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
^soccer games are easy to sway, especially when the teams are all at very high levels of competition.

I have coached and ref'd before.

As for F1...Ferrari was just able to change an O ring on their engine in the pneumatic system for the valves. The FIA allowed it. I'm pretty sure any other team would not have been allowed to do this. The fans are largely Ferrari fans and they (the FIA) want the Ferrari cars running.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,927 Posts
They are not "rigged" they just have HUMAN error! Down on the field, court or whatever the surface the refs see it way differently than you do at home with the constant replay and zoom lens from every angle. Also factor in adrenaline and I would say refs do a good job for the most part even though they are human.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
778 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
^Trust me on this one. I have ref'd and I know quite a few refs. Some of them hold grudges, others probably get off on controlling the game the way they want to. And yes, some just screw up from time to time with "human error". I don't mind when a ref is equally bad which happens quite a bit, but when they are making a concious effort to help out one team over the other...that is bad.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top