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Discussion Starter · #1 ·


Yea... so much for the OBX muffler... hahahaha!

So this is in the process of doing a ghetto-tune on a CRX with an ITR engine, and a Jackson Racing Supercharger on stock-boost... And since i don't have a dyno, and i don't feel like excessive speed on a public road, a private parking lot will have to do :p It was lots of fun though... hehe. Next step is to take it to a dyno, and fine-tune it.
 

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haha cool, thats a nasty dip!

curious, how were you tuning it?

Im thinking about writing a guide to tuning our cars for this site, but im only familiar with Crome/Uberdata and ZDYNE

If you were using some sort of full management what were you doing, trying to get the fuel maps all dialed in? Then take it to the dyno to get the ignition maps down?

What AFR do you tune for on a boosted car? on a NA one?

I finally got my fuel maps dead on 13:1 WOT, im still running a bit rich part throttle, but working on it.

Soon I need to find a dyno and start tuning my ignition maps for power.

maybe i can write something up and then people can post suggestions and i can add in info. everyone thinks tuning is magical voodoo, but it really isnt all that hard...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Matt, this tune was being done with the ZDyne computer, and an Innovate Wideband O2. This was purely a fuel session, as i started out with the B16Fi.zdy file. The ignition maps pull out .5 degrees of timing per lb of boost, and that is perfectly fine for this setup. Mainly it was to add fuel to make up for the larger displacement of this motor.

When it goes to the dyno, i'll get a bit more playful with the ignition maps since it is much easeier to hear detonation, and you'll of course be able to easily see it on the dyno graph. Doing this on the road, there is way too much going on to be able to mess with that stuff reliably.

On this car, the fuel ratio was in the 12.8-to-13.1 range throughout the pull... much nicer compred to the 16:1~ ratio it had when we started.

You can definitely write something up, but i'd be very very careful at giving out advise for tuning... if someone blows their motor following advise because they didn't posess the knowledge to see something else being wrong, then that would not be too great.

What WOULD be of use, is a complete, step-by-step tutorial on using a program like TurboEdit, or Chrome.... i know htere is forum, but i mean like a "Tuning for Dummies" tutorial... spell everything out, step-by-step, so that way people won't be forced to sift through a few forums trying to piece it togehter.... i mena, part numbers to stuff, and where to buy, etc... everything. That way it would be freely distributable, and -anyone- can chip their own ECU with that stuff.

But as for the tuning, no, it isn't magical voo-doo, but you DO have to pay attention to things in a certain way. This isn't something that can easily be taught on a message forum. THere is a reason why there are 2-day long schools just to teach the basic stuff, and then advanced classes beyond that.

Anyhoo... i'll be glad to help where i can if you want though. Jus let me know ;)

BY THE WAY..... dunno if anyone noticed or not, but ZDyne cut their prices nearly in HALF on the ZDyne GOLD SECU... it is now $595 instead of $950, which brings it into the realm of what it would cost to chip your own stuff... i mean, it is still more by a couple hundred dollars, but thats worth it to me to not have to constantly burn chips and crap to get a tune or just to change a rev limit... 8)
 

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ComposiMo said:
BY THE WAY..... dunno if anyone noticed or not, but ZDyne cut their prices nearly in HALF on the ZDyne GOLD SECU... it is now $595 instead of $950, which brings it into the realm of what it would cost to chip your own stuff... i mean, it is still more by a couple hundred dollars, but thats worth it to me to not have to constantly burn chips and crap to get a tune or just to change a rev limit... 8)
Yeah...with all the engine management hardware/software out there now, they kind of have to. Especially with the new(ish) Hondata s300. For the same $595, Hondata will get you a lot more features.

...and yes, I'm aware that it requires migrating to obd-1.
 

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yeah i saw that. haha, ive had my zdyne forever it feels like.

I hear what you are saying about people holding you responsible for blowing up their cars. maybe i can just post some guidelines.

You are right abotu the 'dummies' guide, it took me awhile to put everythign together in my head.

people on this site are a little more reasonable about taking personal responsibility for things too, and I think everyone would appreciate a decent reference.

but yeah, I can defintely lay down the basics, i can probably just look thorugh my gaim logs and get all the info i need haha.

for the price that zdyne is, it really is about the same cost as going all out on a standard p28, the main thing that sucks about the zdyne is the lack of datalogging.

I agree that its close to imppossible to street tune an ignition map....I usually stay very conservative on that side.

Sometimes we dont realize how easy we have it, I spent a good part of sunday trying to help tune a turbo G20 wiht a 300zx MAF, skyline injectors, and a VAFC......ugh

Im surprised you tune a boosted car at 13:1, alot of the 'rule of thumb' type posts ive seen advised running it a bit richer then that. altough 16:1 is defintely bad haha. shoul di be tuning my NA car leaner ?

Which innovate W02 are you using? I just sold my LM1 and bought 2 LC1's.

I think tuning is a great discussion that has yet to be brought up on these boards, and itsw soo important!
If there was a dyno closer to me and honda friendly, id be soo much happier.

Sinful (All Motor semi-built GSR)
Auto P28 Converted using Uber1 kit from moates
Hondalog Datalogger
Moates Ostrich Chip Emulator for RTP
Innovate LC1 W02
Crome Pro

Flash (GT28R powered Z6/Y8 hybrid)
Zdyne Gold SECU

[email protected]
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
grouch said:
Hondata s300. For the same $595, Hondata will get you a lot more features.
I'd choose Hondata over ZDyne as well because of the features, and ease of finding someone that could and would tune it (if i didn't know ZDyne myself), but don't forget about Hondata requiring you to be OBD1...

That requires the purchase of a P28 to send in, a distributor, a conversion harness, and a heated 02 sensor (although not really REQUIRED, they are nicer). Depending on your hookups (cause not everyone has a garage full of spare parts, nor people around them that have the stuff necessarily), this can run you right up to where the ZDyne used to be, and where a system like the AEM starts (and AEM only requires the adapter harness, it'll work with any distributor).

:p
 

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I really do like the AEM system, but I dont have a car it would be necessary on. Hondas have so much ability in the stock computer.

I helped install SDS on a turbo 240sx, that was a cool system, but alot of work to get running well!

also, who needs an 02 sensor :twisted: , although im still a bit rich in my part throttle maps, im back up to 44km/gallon with no o2 at all!

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
mattminerDOTcom said:
You are right abotu the 'dummies' guide, it took me awhile to put everythign together in my head ........ but yeah, I can defintely lay down the basics, i can probably just look thorugh my gaim logs and get all the info i need haha.
I personally think this would be a great thing to do. Another important thing would be to emphasise the IMPORTANCE of using a wideband O2 to tune, and INGORING completely ANYTHING that uses the stock O2 to display... for instance, the car posted above had one of those AutoMeter gauges in his car... a LOT of people think "well, if it at least shows rich, then it ought to be close, right?"...... well, this car was running at 16:1, and the lightshow was showing "rich"... i don't care how much anyone believes them, i think they are all paperweights, and should be trashed... i'd LOVE to know how many blown motors can be blamed on the poor readings from those things. I just want to go back in time, and figure out a way to de-invent those gauges...

mattminerDOTcom said:
the main thing that sucks about the zdyne is the lack of datalogging.
I agree... but the ease-of-use makes up for it, because chances are, the cars they are going into don't need logging on a daily basis... but it would make individual tuning a lot nicer.

mattminerDOTcom said:
Sometimes we dont realize how easy we have it, I spent a good part of sunday trying to help tune a turbo G20 wiht a 300zx MAF, skyline injectors, and a VAFC......ugh
Oh, tell me about it... lol. I have that Toyota Tacoma that i'm wanting to boost, but the only thing out there reasonable is a piggyback, that is no better than an "AFC Hack"... Although, i'm working on getting AEM on there. Now... there is ALWAYS the option to go with a more advanced form of control, like Motec... it can be adapted to fit and work with pretty much any vehicle on the planet... but people are usually 'cheap' for the most part, even owning expensive cars. hehe.

mattminerDOTcom said:
Im surprised you tune a boosted car at 13:1, alot of the 'rule of thumb' type posts ive seen advised running it a bit richer then that. altough 16:1 is defintely bad haha. shoul di be tuning my NA car leaner ?
Aye... this is a low boost app... 13:1 is plenty fine with enough ignition being removed. however, it was at 12.8/9 in the higher rpms ;) On an N/A car, it depends on your ignition timing, and what you notice when you add or remove more fuel where you're at. you should be able to get away with running an N/A car closer to stoich... but not too close... maybe 13.8-14.1:1... but i'd be careful there. Conservative N/A would be more like 13.2-13.5. Big power motors, or high compression would change that though... by the way, this brings up a good point... variables like these are a reason that a simple "how-to-tune" guide would probably not work out so well... too many little variables.

mattminerDOTcom said:
Which innovate W02 are you using? I just sold my LM1 and bought 2 LC1's.
I'm using an LM-1... i was looking into the LC1, but the LM made more sense for what i need, and how i use it.

mattminerDOTcom said:
I think tuning is a great discussion that has yet to be brought up on these boards, and itsw soo important!
It is definitely important to discuss, but not something to be taken lightly...

Tuning is 80% Troubleshooting, and 20% Actual Tuning...
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
mattminer said:
who needs an 02 sensor :twisted: , although im still a bit rich in my part throttle maps, im back up to 44km/gallon with no o2 at all!
IMHO, for a properly running street car at part throttle, and O2 sensor can DEFINITELY be needed.

However, with that said... Jonny_Black is currently running with no O2 either.. But i want him to, because i think it'll help his idle and part throttle efficiency a bit more... but its running fine without, just not exactly the most fuel efficient thing out there.. haha!
 

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wow, im glad we agree on so many points!

i have an autometer AF gauge, but i have it hooked up to one of my narrowband outputs, and the innovate calibrated exactly for the guages' range. If it does something weird, I can simply crack open the laptop and check my actual lambda values.

You are right baout the LM1 being useful if it has to be moved alot, the LC1s are great for permenant installation.

I think we are going to switch out the SAFC for a greddy blue box...itll at least give us datalogging and better fuel and igntiion tuning.

I guess as a car owner, datalogging isnt a big deal, but tuing that G20 w/o it was a game and a half. It would be close to impossible by yourself.

Im curious to know if you have any more insight as to the necessity of an 02 sensor? I used cromes autotune feature in part throttle to get the maps close, and now i just need to fine tune. The car idles rock solid at about 15:1, and at very light throttle stays around 14:1, but i have a problem on the medium to heavy thorttle transition where it goes rich and then leans back to where I want it.

What does Jonny_Black's car use for tuning? In order to get my idle down perfect I had to modify my ECT and IAT correction tables and adjust the duty cycle of the IAC. but im idling rich for a few seconds after turn on, then dead on 15:1 at 750 rpm after that.

The hardest part about all this was learning the basics, and now the time spent getting things dead money on. it took only a small amount of time to get REAL close, its the little things that are taking me hours.

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Back on topic :p Glad you could help out on my car John. (Technically it is my car but Im selling it to my roommate) Hopefully it does well on the dyno and the track. All and all it sounds great and rides so much better.
 

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Hocker said:
Back on topic :p Glad you could help out on my car John. (Technically it is my car but Im selling it to my roommate) Hopefully it does well on the dyno and the track. All and all it sounds great and rides so much better.
sorry :oops:

i just get excited about some stuff. props on a boosted ITR! do you have another crx? or ar eyou getting out of the rex scene?

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I wasn't mad just pointing out how off-topic it got hehehe. My other crx is the grand project John is working on (k24 itbs) I am sure there is a thread on here about it, also the one with all the cf parts. If you want a link to the project thats on a few other sites let me know. (not sure if mentioning other car forums is allowed).

I am very much into crx's. I just had a lot of spare stuff left over from my pride and joy and had this black crx I had been trying to sell for awhile. I couldn't sell it (which i dont know why 1500 for a LS swapped crx w/all the turbo parts was insane to a lot of ppl) But anyways my roomie wanted to get out of his huge car payments so I offered this up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hocker: LoL! No problem man... it was fun :)

Matt: If you want, we can create another thread on the tuning stuff... hehe. I don't mind. But Jonnys car is running ZDyne Gold as well, and we didn't have to do anything to get it idling nice, other than Jon finally fixed his PCV system, and now it idles perfect.. >shrug<

Click Here for the page where Kevins other project is being detailed... 8)
 

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Hocker said:
not sure if mentioning other car forums is allowed
Yes it is allowed. I see John already posted it. But for future reference, it's allowed and encouraged. As long as it's not links to your own site where you're trying to sell something.

Hocker said:
i dont know why 1500 for a LS swapped crx w/all the turbo parts was insane to a lot of ppl
Dang! I would have bought it. :shock:
 

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Hocker said:
Back on topic :p Glad you could help out on my car John. (Technically it is my car but Im selling it to my roommate) Hopefully it does well on the dyno and the track. All and all it sounds great and rides so much better.
hey what about me...I did the most important part. jeez no respect here. :lol: :wink:

yup she is running and idling alot better now. but still not the greatest on gas...but luckly I dont have to worry about driving her as much now...since I am driving a nice Brighthouse van...woot. Dont worry john we will get that o2 hooked up sooner or later. hehe.

peace
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
daveb91 said:
I bet a ITR SC CRX would be fun to drive!
Oh... it is :)

Jonny_Black: And yea, you definitely did do the most important part... without ya there, we would have never been able to tune it 8) Thanks for making the trip over on such short notice!
 
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