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MarkWilliamson said:
D_Britt_57 said:
American kids killed in America, by American troops.
What's the difference between a "troop" and a "kid?" A uniform and a rifle, I suspect.

It was sad, indeed, but they weren't killed "for" protesting the war, they were killed "while" protesting the war in a terrible accident by scared National Guardsmen.
Mark makes a good point. The National Guardsmen were quoted as saying they were scared for their own lives. Many National Guardsmen were injured during the protests by rocks and other debris.
Not that I condone this at all. It was a tragedy. Two of the four killed were not even involved in the protest. They were walking between classes. And, one the dead was actually hit in the head by a bullet from behind. And it was determined that the bullet was NOT from a military gun.
There are proper ways to protest and there are proper ways to handle protestors. I think we can all agree that this wasn't a shining moment for either side.
 

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I live in Kent and I am kinda sick of this stuff coming up every may 4th. Most people around here really are over it.... I mean there are people that still do peacefull protests and whatnot but most everyone around here is well beyond this stuff.

they still shoot college kids here, just with rubber bullets now, and wearing riot gear.
 

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The National Guardsmen were quoted as saying they were scared for their own lives.
I'd say the same thing if I just shot a kid. The guardsmen (there were over 75 of them) fired almost 70 shots (about a third of them used their weapons). The distance between the kids they shot and the guardsmen was way too far to throw a rock or a bottle.

Of those wounded, none was closer than 71 feet (22 m) to the guardsmen. Of those killed, the *nearest* was 265 feet (81 m) away.
Tell me you are scared of someone who is nearly a football field away (and that's the NEAREST), even if they have a rock. Even if the specific victims weren't shot intentionally (ie they were aiming at a closer target that was actually some sort of *threat*), it was a hugely, hugely stupid act. Firing indiscriminately into a crowd of your own countrymen is about the most retarded and cowardly thing I could ever imagine. 100% inexcusable.

I'm not really buying the "should have been a truly peaceful protest" stuff either. The kids that WERE involved in the demonstration had every right to be pissed off and demonstrating...with the draft expanding and stuff like the mai lai massacre (and subsequent coverup) coming to light, people wanted their voice to be heard when they said that there were terrible, terrible things happening over there, it was spiraling out of control, and they weren't about to go over there and be a part of it.

The soldiers found no insurgents in the village on the morning of March 16, 1968. The soldiers, one platoon of which was led by Lt. William Calley, killed hundreds of civilians ? primarily old men, women, children, and babies. Some were tortured or raped. Dozens were herded into a ditch and executed with automatic weapons. The precise number reported killed varies from source to source, with 347 and 504 being the most commonly cited figures.
If you were about to get drafted into a war like THAT, would you write a peaceful little sign and sing folk songs by candlelight, or would you demonstrate? I'm not saying throwing rocks at cops and guardsmen was a good thing, but this was serious stuff they were demonstrating against, and they wanted their message to be heard. too bad it was heard in the manner it was. in any case, iraq could just as easily end up the same way...

Tin soldiers and Nixon's coming,
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming,
Four dead in Ohio.
Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are gunning us down
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew her
And found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?
 

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When he heard about the shootings at Kent State, California Governor Ronald W. Reagan replied, "Well, if it's going to take a bloodbath, then let's get on with it."

What a great human being...

Of course, the My Lai Massacre never "officially" happened. Suuuuuuurrrre it didn't. And the Gulf of Tonkin Incident (which triggered the wholesale US military buildup in Viet Nam in earnest) really did happen. Oh, and there's this bridge in Brooklyn that's for sale, cheap.

Mike
 

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I dont think it should be forgotten, but it should not be about blame. It is a sad footnote in our violent history as a nation. I remember it well. I left the country to avoid the draft and saw it from abroad. Some of my friends went in, some died no one came back the same. Idealistic people got us involved, disinfranchised youth asked why. There was a breach in our country, with politicians out of touch with what the youth were thinking, the involuntary participants called to quell the communist threat that did not exist in a corrupt country that could care less. It should be a memorial day to remember the suffering of all involved, nothing more.
 

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Dren said:
DiscoStu said:
dohcya said:
A truely peaceful protestor would in theory never need to be shot.
A peaceful protestor in a legally held peaceful protest would never need to be shot.
That depends on what the government deems legal. Sad if you think about it.
Which is why you forego the government and go with what the written law says.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
And subsequent local written laws as to when and where and what licenses must be obtained to hold such a peaceable assembly on public or government land.
 

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Dren said:
DiscoStu said:
And subsequent local written laws as to when and where and what licenses must be obtained to hold such a peaceable assembly on public or government land.
Yes, you must first pay the government before you can protest it!!!
If the government pays a worker to mow the big ol' park lawn and seed it and sod it, the people who are going to trample it in a redress of greivances should contribute, no? Or help cover the overtime a cop will be earning while he's manning the barricades (or wearing his hat and bat if it comes to that).
 
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