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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

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your wife is a rabble rousing rabbi.. lol

I think its great that she is tackling this issue at her temple.. the world needs more people like her.. people that actually try to do something about the problems in the world.. other then people who just sit around and bitch...

You guys rock!

later

Sneak
 

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I hate to, but I gotta say, that's a good lookin Rabbi!!!!!

"Forgive me Father, for I have sinned.........."
 

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People can have a different opinion then your wife, but to interrupt her sermon is plain rude.
It IS totally appropriate for he to talk of such things, as Jesus taught that we should be good to ALL people and to renounce hate and violence.
Oh, tell the good Rabbi that she ROCKS!
And rude republicans are nothing new these days, you know "either your with us or against us".
I submit that Christians (or Jews) that advocate torture and war are not following the faith as preached by Jesus.
Yeah, OC is full of the rich folks that care for nothing except their next tax cut.
 

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D_Britt_57 said:
I submit that Christians (or Jews) that advocate torture and war are not following the faith as preached by Jesus.
Yeah, OC is full of the rich folks that care for nothing except their next tax cut.
Who is advocating torture? I've never heard or read any Christian, Jew, or politician who is advocating this practice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Actually, the whole point of her sermon was "Torture is Bad", but people we getting ticked that she was hammering away at, and naming the people in, the chain of command responsible for it. That was the first half of the sermon, which she was just ending when she was interupted. She's always been pretty hard hitting in her sermons, but since then she's been careful to mix thing up a bit so it doesn't seem like a nonstop broadside.

Funny thing about it, this was BEFORE anything actually came out about torture at Gitmo... and everything she mentioned fearing happening at Gitmo in the sermon came out as being verified true in the two years since.
 

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xxpaulcpxx,

Torture is bad and does not work very well. Our government does not condone it. Our soldiers do not use it.
A few bad soldiers violated policy and they were punished.
I personally know and currently work with several Officers and NCO's that were there. They are deeply hurt by the fact that their good work has been overshadowed by a few rogue soliders.
I did not hear your wife's sermon and therefore can not comment on it. I am pleased to see she and your congregation are talking to seek a greater understanding.

Paul
 

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Charles said:
UTRex said:
Torture is bad and does not work very well. Our government does not condone it. Our soldiers do not use it.
:lol:

You need to seriously have a bit more cynicism. Our government, when not torturing prisoners itself, sends them to other countries to torture them.
Charles,
You believe Amnesty Int.; I believe the people who are physically there working. I trust my coworkers whom I've known for 20 years. People with families, morals, and respect for all humans. People that understand torture does not work and when they witnessed violations of policy by a few who crossed the line dealt with it swiftly. People that take great lengths to prevent atrocities and are still accused of doing so.
These soldiers are the salt of the earth, not the abusive psychopaths some would want you to believe. They are among the brightest and most proffessional people you would ever meet.
If you are ever in the neighborhood and wish to do so, I will introduce you to some heros. You may have read about them in newspapers, but definately forgot their names. We can sit on my porch, drink a beer or lemonade because most do not drink or smoke, and you can hear for yourself how they saved lives, helped many, killed when they needed to do so, and came home to their families. If you are lucky they will bring pictures and movies of how they lived and what they faced every day.
Most came back intact, some left pieces of their bodies in the sands and splattered against the rocks. Every one of them tell me they made a positive influence in the quality of life for a group of strangers in a foriegn land. Every one said they would do it again, most are now completing their 3rd or 4th rotation.
I don't think it's as bad as you believe. If it were, the people who are there would say so, not that they are glad to have go, to return multiple times, and to support our reasons for being there.
Get away from your computer and the internet, drive to the nearest military base, there is probably even a National Guard Armory less the 25 miles from your home, and talk to people that were there. Then you may judge them.
Paul
 

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Mark,

If I knew for a fact torture would save a life, I would support it on a personal level. No problem whatsoever.
The rub is that proffessionally I can not and therefore do not support it. All of my training and studies support that torture is not as reliable as other methods. Example: You have two perps. You can separate them and question them using each statement to support, deny, or confirm what the other says until you find the truth. Or you grab one and wristlock him until he starts squealing. When he is hurting, he will to whatever it takes to make you stop. He will say anything....sometimes it's the truth, sometimes it's just something to make you stop, sometimes it's what he thinks you want to hear. I call this pain avoidance, some thinks it's pain compliance.

Charles,
Blind obediance? Unaware of what our governement is doing? What is our government doing that is so wrong? We are strickly enforcing the standards of the Geneva Convention even though we did not sign it. Ensuring detainees are well fed, clothed, clean, given excellent medical care, allowed to pray and given materials and clergy to support their religous requests.
Amnesty Int.'s definitions of torture do not match mine or the US governments. Flex-cuffing, shackling, and putting a coth bag over someone's head so they don't spit on you - try to run - or record the location of US forces to attack later is not torture. Shaving the head or face for sanitary and safety reasons is not torture, nor is strip searching. All of these things are used and condoned in every jail and prison in the US.
I personnally don't think having a dog bark at you is torture. If it is, can I sue my neighbors? Their dog has tortured me for years.
Have you read the accounts of how many detainees are happy to be at Gitmo? How they prefer to be there instead of housed by their own countrymen? Or do you only focus on the bad.
I don't think we are blind, I think you are not fully informed.
Paul
 

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So you do not believe our government intentionally sent detainees to other countries where they would be knowingly tortured for information?

Since you expressed that letting dogs attack within inches of a naked prisoner is comparable to a neighbor's dog barking next door, do you consider it torture the tactics used by our government of waterboarding, exposure to extreme temperatures, forced standing, binding in stress positions, and severe sleep deprivation?
 
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